Meet Jon Dorenbos.
His father killed his mother when he was 12. And after doing the work to heal from that tragedy he has become a super successful professional football player, a master magician, a competitor in the finals of America’s Got Talent, and is a regular guest on The Ellen DeGeneres Show.
He is a motivational and inspirational speaker giving truly paradigm-shifting and life-altering keynotes globally.
He is the POSTER CHILD for Mental Toughness. Oh, and he holds the record for most consecutive games played for my beloved Philadelphia EAGLES!!!
More about Jon Dorenbos:
Life is Magic book: www.lifeismagic.com
Jon’s website: jondorenbos.com
IG: @jondorenbos
Here is an AI transcript of the whole episode:
[00:00:00] Jon Dorenbos: I, you’re right. I do have a choice, but I tell myself I don’t have a choice. Okay. All right. Okay. So, my choice in dealing with my reality and coming to terms with my reality is you’re gonna make the best of it. You are gonna find motivation and defeat. You are gonna find motivation and the worst things that happened to you, because if you don’t, then what kind of life are you gonna live?
[00:00:22] Jon Dorenbos: And the reality is this is that life happens. Life happens to all of us. It doesn’t matter what you think your plan is or what you think you want to have happen. It doesn’t matter what it is. Odds are somebody’s already been through it. There’s a group of people that have been through it, and now it’s less about being embarrassed about what your reality is and just saying, Hey, this is who I am.
[00:00:40] Jon Dorenbos: This is where I come from. These are decisions that I’ve made. This is the past. These are the things that were my fault. These are the things that weren’t my fault. But how do I grow and how do I get better? And oh my gosh, wait, I’m not alone. Wait a lot of other people have done the same things. I have.
[00:00:53] Chris Dorris: Most of us never learned how to train our brains. Which is why most of us needlessly, settle, struggle, and worse sufferer. [00:01:00] My name is Chris Doris and I wanna make brain training mainstream. This is my series, tough Talks, conversations on Mental Toughness. I’m interviewing bad asses from all walks of life on what mental toughness means to them and their unique approaches to strengthening their minds.
[00:01:20] Chris Dorris: Hey guys, welcome back to Tough Talks, conversations on Mental Toughness. I’m your host, Chris Aris, and I am super pumped. Super pumped to share with you our guest today, former Philadelphia Eagles. Yeah, that’s right. That’s my team. You know it Go Birds. Former long snapper for the Philadelphia Eagles. John Doen boss, if you haven’t heard of him, if you don’t know him from football fame, because he actually holds the record for most consecutive games.
[00:01:50] Chris Dorris: Played and I think for actually all four of the major Philadelphia sports teams, not just the Eagles. 162 consecutive games. He’s gone to Pro Bowl twice. He’s won all these awards. [00:02:00] And, a story that I can’t wait to ask him about or have him tell is that, you know, the reason he’s not playing football anymore is, that he got traded.
[00:02:10] Chris Dorris: That’s an interesting thing by itself. Long snappers. Don’t get tra. Wait till you hear his response to the fact that he’s getting traded. Wait till you hear the way he chose to respond to discovering that he was getting traded. He didn’t wanna be traded. So anyway, he gets traded. When you get traded, what has to happen is you need to get a physical, well, you know what, I’m not gonna spoil it.
[00:02:31] Chris Dorris: I’ll let him just tell you all that. So, he is now retired from the NFL and he’s crushing it in so many other ways. He is, he competed in season 11. He made it to the finals of America’s, got talent handed up, finishing third. And, his final trick is just this, like, it’s so emotional. God. That’s what I love about the way he uses magic to actually communicate really important messages on how to choose to interpret life.[00:03:00]
[00:03:00] Chris Dorris: So good. So good. So he is like the epitome of that for me. And I’ve been trying to get him on the show for a while. It’s not that like he said, no, it’s just hard to get in touch with him cause he’s like ridiculous. He’s on the Ellen show like every day and that’s actually really beautiful. Like the relationship that he has with her.
[00:03:15] Chris Dorris: He’s basically, Ellen DeGeneres is like magician. He’s on there all the time. You can tell they love each other and it’s like they’re kindred spirits because I, they both just love humans and bring up the vibe. Ah, I’m so happy to share you with him. This is his new book where I’ve studied this.
[00:03:33] Chris Dorris: This is an, it’s called Life is Magic and you can get it@lifeismagic.com. And he’s got a really cool website too. John doreen boss.com. and there’s an offer that I’ll tell you about. I’ll just put it in the show notes. you can get assigned, you can get like a book plate to put in the front. He’ll sign it for you if you just, send a self, a Joe stamp to his manager.
[00:03:51] Chris Dorris: I’ll share that, those details with you, later on. All right, folks, with no further ado, let’s go find the man. I figure we’re gonna have pretty good story hour. [00:04:00] And there he is, the man, the magician, the Philly legend, Mr. John Doen, boss. What’s up man? Excuse me. Sorry. Thanks for warrior kicking off. God bless you.
[00:04:20] Chris Dorris: Yeah. So, I gave, I don’t think a lot of people, there is a diminishing number of human beings who need to have you introduced. I. And, but I did introduce you, just a second ago to our audience and I just, I really wanna say thanks for making time cause this is a true gift and you know, the whole reason I even do this Tough Talks podcast is in service and completely in service, right?
[00:04:46] Chris Dorris: in service to people. More specifically with respect to the fact that, you know, none of us learned in grade school. I dunno, I won’t speak for you. Maybe correct me if I’m wrong, but I sure as shit didn’t ever have a class on [00:05:00] how to use my mind. Well, even more so on how to choose to interpret reality.
[00:05:04] Chris Dorris: And that’s a big goddamn deal. Like, how to choose, and I’m not saying this to you, for you, this is like context creation for our conversation. For the audience. We weren’t educated on how to choose to interpret realities in ways that service that have us be amazing. in fact, just the opposite, and I can’t wait to hear you speak to this, we have actually all been conditioned or taught otherwise, which is to play victim of circumstance.
[00:05:28] Chris Dorris: And I know you have a lot to say about that. I’ve got your book and I’ve been reading, I’ve been studying this puppy. Oh man. Well, I’ll tell you what. Great job, dude. Thank you. Thank you. This is moving. I mean, I, you know, you cover, you got, you get all the feels in here, bro.
[00:05:42] Jon Dorenbos: It was years. It was years in the making and you know, when I thought that it was over, but yet it was missing something, something happened into my life to where we just kept writing and writing.
[00:05:52] Jon Dorenbos: So, that is a full revelation. I’m really proud of that. You talk about legacy and what you’re doing to pay it forward and, when you’re gone, the difference you could [00:06:00] make, you know, as I was writing that book and I realized that my wife and I were pregnant, and, you know, not to get too far ahead, and then I chose to go see my dad.
[00:06:08] Jon Dorenbos: I realized that I was writing my story for my daughter, and I realized that if I weren’t to make it as long as I want in this life, she’ll forever know who her dad is through those words, all up until the point that literally she was born, everything that was me before we met. So, it was super emotional and I’m really proud of it.
[00:06:26] Jon Dorenbos: And that’s my story. and writing a book is a big undertaking. It’s a big responsibility and a big undertaking. And, thank you for reading it.
[00:06:33] Chris Dorris: Yeah, of course man. Well, thank you for writing it and we’ll be referencing it. There’s a few, pages that I marked here. the book by the way, for those listening on the audio version that’s called Life is Magic and it’s available@lifeismagic.com.
[00:06:45] Chris Dorris: And I’ll reiterate that later. So let’s start with, can we, if you’re cool with this man, and totally redirect if you’re not, with the tragedy. Can we go there?
[00:06:55] Jon Dorenbos: Yeah, I’m an open
[00:06:56] Chris Dorris: book man. I can tell. So when you were 12, you [00:07:00] had an unthinkable event occur. Can you tell us about it?
[00:07:05] Jon Dorenbos: Yeah, well, so b before we get into it, this, you know, a lot of people and yourself included,they’re kind of hesitant and they’re like, Hey, if you’re cool with it, I like to talk about it. But that, that right there with how you open this interview, it was about coming to terms with your reality.
[00:07:22] Jon Dorenbos: Having to deal with your reality. And really it’s about being honest with your reality. And so all of a sudden when all those take place,you’re okay talking about things. Because embarrassment is no longer an issue. Embarrassment no longer drives the defense mechanism to deflect. And so I’m okay with my reality.
[00:07:43] Jon Dorenbos: I’m okay with what happened to me because, cuz you ready? I don’t have a choice.
[00:07:48] Chris Dorris: Oh, that’s an interesting thing for me to hear to you say, maybe I should let you elaborate because you were, you used the word choice a whole lot. So what [00:08:00] do you mean you’re not a choice?
[00:08:01] Jon Dorenbos: my, well, okay. You’re right.
[00:08:02] Jon Dorenbos: You know what I do have?
[00:08:02] Chris Dorris: You could only choose to be a victim, but you’re the opposite of that.
[00:08:05] Jon Dorenbos: Yeah, I, you’re right. I do have a choice, but I tell myself I don’t have a choice. Okay. All right. Okay. So, so my choice in dealing with my reality and coming to terms with my reality is you’re gonna make the best of it.
[00:08:20] Jon Dorenbos: You are gonna find motivation and defeat. You are gonna find motivation and the worst things that happened to you, because if you don’t, then what kind of life are you gonna live? And the reality is this is that life happens. Life happens to all of us. It doesn’t matter what you think your plan is or what you think you want to have happen.
[00:08:36] Jon Dorenbos: It doesn’t matter what it is. Odds are somebody’s already been through it. There’s a group of people that have been through it, and now it’s less about being embarrassed about what your reality is and just saying, Hey, this is who I am. This is where I come from. These are decisions that I’ve made.
[00:08:49] Jon Dorenbos: This is the past. These are the things that were my fault. These are the things that weren’t my fault, but how do I grow and how do I get better? And oh my gosh, wait, I’m not alone. Wait a lot of other people have done the same things I have. [00:09:00] So now let’s all get out of this together. And I truly believe that if we can find motivation in the worst things that happened to us, because those things have already happened.
[00:09:09] Jon Dorenbos: So whether we wanna sit there and play the victim card and make excuses, and if that’s our way of showing the world that, cuz here’s the other thing that I, that I’ve observed, and I’m not classifying any groups of people, but I have observed some individuals over my path of speaking and talking to people.
[00:09:27] Jon Dorenbos: But I think some people think that, and then, and we’re kind of veering off here, but I think coming to terms with your reality is also having a very deep sense of forgiveness in a lot of different aspects of life. And I think a lot of people think that if they play the victim, then that means that the world thinks that they care more, right?
[00:09:47] Jon Dorenbos: So if I choose not to forget somebody that betrayed me, it’s because I care. It’s because I believe in something. It’s because if I forgive, I’m weak. And now I just redefined what those terms [00:10:00] were. I redefined what it means to come to terms with my own reality. I redefined what it means to, have closure and be okay with closure and change.
[00:10:07] Jon Dorenbos: And I redefined what forgiveness means. Let,
[00:10:10] Chris Dorris: yeah. Okay. And I want to get to that because there’s some stuff at the end towards the very end of the book about what I call divine selfishness is forgiving for you. Yep. Right. and I to We have to get to that. We will. but let’s back up and like, share of you that don’t know the deal.
[00:10:27] Chris Dorris: Like what? Yeah. Drop the bomb. Yeah. So, and lemme preface it just a tiny bit Okay. By saying what you’re about to share with those who are listening or watching that, that haven’t heard this story. This is fucking hardcore.
[00:10:40] Jon Dorenbos: Yeah. and you
[00:10:42] Chris Dorris: of anyone would have very legitimate reasons to stay in the victim state forever.
[00:10:54] Jon Dorenbos: A lot of people would think that. Yeah. so I was, I lived in a loving home. I had two great [00:11:00] parents. My dad was my hero for all the reasons that you would hope that a little boy looks up to his dad. Played catch every day. President little league coached my teams. and, you know, and I wanted to be just like him.
[00:11:11] Jon Dorenbos: my mom volunteered at my elementary school and taught a reading program. My reading comprehensions was bad and still is really bad. And so I was placed in like the special learning group. and then they started a reading program that my mom helped, that helped kids learn more visually in, a book club and a reading club.
[00:11:27] Jon Dorenbos: And kids liked my mom. And so I felt like at a young age, my mom and this is me looking back, but my mom kind of showed me that you can be different, you can be special and still have a place in this world and still have a role in this world. And so I went home at 12 years old. I was across Streete playing a friend’s house.
[00:11:44] Jon Dorenbos: And when I went home, my dad had murdered my mother outta nowhere. And it wasn’t good. And so he used a bench grinder and a sledgehammer, put her in a sleeping bag and put her in the trunk of his car. So he kept me from the garage. The next morning I went to a baseball camp [00:12:00] and he turned himself in.
[00:12:02] Jon Dorenbos: he was tried for second degree murder, of which I, I learned later in life that in the state of Washington, the max penalty for second degree murder was 13 years at the time. Wow. So he knew going in that he was only gonna get 13 years max. Right. So the defense became, a self-defense. Right. agree or disagree.
[00:12:20] Jon Dorenbos: It doesn’t really matter. That was his plea. And, he, since he turned himself in, it wasn’t about whether he did it or not, it was about what was the motivation and what was gonna be the sentencing. they thought about first degree, but first degree one is really hard to prove. I mean, first degree means it’s premeditated.
[00:12:35] Jon Dorenbos: It means that you basically wrote a letter that said, Hey, at this time I’m going to do this. Okay? Premeditated is, you know, you go hire an undercover agent to do a hit and you pay that person to execute, right? That’s premeditation. So they went for second degree. he was found guilty, sentenced to 13 years.
[00:12:50] Jon Dorenbos: he served, like 11 of that, 13. And then he was released. he went to prison in, 92, 93, and he was released around what? Oh 4, 0 5. [00:13:00] And, my life changed forever.
[00:13:04] Chris Dorris: Now, when I listened to you speak on that and read you right on that and listen to you in other podcast interviews, and I hear you talk about it, it sounds to me as if somewhere along the line, You had some really profound influence on how to not be a victim, but I’m not clear on what that influence is.
[00:13:27] Chris Dorris: It like, how did you learn this to take such extreme tragedy? Okay. That, that humans will uniformly agree. is incomprehensibly tragic, right? Yeah. And still not play victim? where did this
[00:13:44] Jon Dorenbos: learning come from? All right, so this is kind of me playing Monday quarterback where you kind of look back on your life in third person.
[00:13:51] Jon Dorenbos: and my evaluation, it’s done in a way of whether I wanted this to happen or not. It happened. So now it’s no [00:14:00] longer about, being emotional about it in a sense of victim. Right now it’s how do we get out of it? And when I look back, I had a lot of things going for me. And the things that were going for me is I was old enough to, I was 12 and I was old enough to understand, but I was young enough to still be influenced, and I was young enough to still have somebody show me the way and follow.
[00:14:22] Jon Dorenbos: and not know, that I had a choice. Right. So if I was 18, 19, 20, well then you’re already exposed to the evil side of the world, and now you’re also exposed to this idea of choice. No, I don’t have to do that. no, I don’t have to do that. I don’t have to do anything. I can do whatever I want.
[00:14:39] Jon Dorenbos: Well, at 12, you’re old enough to understand you’re old enough to comprehend. But I don’t know if I was old enough to understand that I had a choice. To just say, no, I’m not doing this, and just rebel. I didn’t know what that was. So instead, my mom’s sister, Susan and my grandparents, have loved me and taken care of me and shown me guidance.
[00:14:59] Jon Dorenbos: And then [00:15:00] we spent, my sister and I spent about seven, eight months in a temporary foster home. to finish out the school year. And then we were gonna move down with my aunt in to Southern California. Well, during that time, we had therapy and it was the most intense experiential therapy you could possibly imagine.
[00:15:15] Jon Dorenbos: Wow. we would go multiple times a week, my sister and I individually, and then her and I would do a group session with the therapist, what would be her and I, and the therapist. And, that I think I contribute to probably giving me the fundamentals and the mindset in the toolbox, if you will. To have emotional awareness, to have thank, to be thankful, to have forgiveness, to be able to process.
[00:15:37] Jon Dorenbos: the things I learned in that therapy.
[00:15:40] Chris Dorris: So forgive this. Have you completely forgiven your father?
[00:15:46] Jon Dorenbos: yeah, I have. And,I think for me it was about redefining what that term is. Now this is deep, right? Yep. Okay, good. Bring it. There’s a lot of different layers. I had to forgive myself first, and then [00:16:00] I wanted to forgive my dad to just have closure with that part of my life.
[00:16:06] Jon Dorenbos: And so, and for me, and you touched upon this earlier. To me, forgiveness became about me. It became about not for him, not for anybody else. It became about me coming to closure, me having, coming to terms of my reality and me being okay with what happened. Yeah. And it’s also, and you know what else it was for me, a commitment to not repeat the bad.
[00:16:29] Jon Dorenbos: What do you mean? For me? Well, for me, having forgiving my dad was also like this internal commitment that I won’t repeat the mistakes he made, that I won’t become that. And it was like my way of standing in front of him and making that deal with myself that I will be better. That,I will do better in this world.
[00:16:47] Jon Dorenbos: I will be a better father, I will be a better husband, and I’ll try to be a better person now. Am I perfect? No. so, so going back to forgiveness, right? So I had to forgive myself because I had guilt for a while when I was in my twenties. about [00:17:00] whether my mom would understand and if she was here, you know, because it’s all about picking sides, right?
[00:17:05] Jon Dorenbos: When people get divorced, you gotta pick a side. You can’t be friends with both, right? That’s society telling us that. And so all of a sudden it was like, if I forgive my dad, is my mom gonna be mad at me? Whether she’s in heaven or not? Is my family gonna be mad at me? Well, anybody understand? And I came to this realization that, you know what?
[00:17:21] Jon Dorenbos: I don’t really care. I don’t really care if you understand. In fact, for those that have not read the book, my wife gets pregnant. I’m 30 at the time, I was 38, I guess 37, 38, I think, and, 38. And I realized that I wanted to go see my dad and forgive him, and I wanted to do that when she was literally about a month or two from delivering my daughter.
[00:17:44] Jon Dorenbos: And I realized that I’d thought about it for years, but I’d never taken action on it. and I didn’t tell anybody. I told my wife, yeah, that was it. And the reason is, for the first time, I didn’t care what anybody thought. I really didn’t care if you agreed with it. I didn’t care if you supported it. I didn’t care if you disagreed with it [00:18:00] and didn’t support it.
[00:18:01] Jon Dorenbos: Anybody else’s opinion was completely irrelevant to my path. And so I didn’t tell anybody. And, what I did is, well, I’m okay. We’re gonna go back even further now because this is life coming full circle. And I know I’m kind of rambling on here, but there’s a lot of different layers to this forgiveness.
[00:18:15] Jon Dorenbos: So, when I was in therapy, my dad’s trial was going on. The therapist wanted my sister and I to see the autopsy photos and everybody thought he was crazy. I mean, everybody thought this guy was crazy and they were all dead set against it. And so when the trial was happening, there was news cameras everywhere and it was, you know, on the TV up in Seattle, on the news.
[00:18:33] Jon Dorenbos: It was the front page everywhere. And so when that part of the trial came where they were gonna show the autopsy photos of my mom, the pictures were angled in a way that only the jurors could see. No cameras, nobody watching, nobody sitting in. And my therapist got upset. So he went to court and my sister and I became the first miners to get a private court order to view an autopsy photo.
[00:18:53] Jon Dorenbos: And so we drove to the,the prosecutor’s office. She walked in and she took a folder and she kind of set it on the table, kind [00:19:00] of just tossed it on the table. And, she was a wonderful lady. they were a great team, but she looked at the therapist and she said, I can’t believe you’re doing this to these kids.
[00:19:08] Jon Dorenbos: And then she walked out. And so when the door closed, and it was just my therapist and my sister and I, 12 years old, my sister was 15, and a folder that contained the autopsy photos of my mom who’d just been beaten to death. I mean, think about this, right? Yeah. My therapist looked at my sister and I and goes, all these people think I’m crazy.
[00:19:26] Jon Dorenbos: But you know what the reality is, I don’t really care if you look at ’em, but why should anybody else decide your life? It’s your life kid. Well, why should anybody else decide whether you wanna see these pictures or not? It’s your life. So here’s what I’m gonna do. I’m gonna get up and walk out this room.
[00:19:42] Jon Dorenbos: You want to peak. If you don’t, I won’t ask, but I’m gonna tell you this. If you decide to look in this folder, there might be a day where you want to sit down with your dad. And it’s a very unpopular thing right now. And people aren’t gonna understand this, but I’ve lived in this world a long time and there might be a day.
[00:19:59] Jon Dorenbos: [00:20:00] When you’re 30, 40, 50 years old, maybe you have kids, maybe you don’t, that you wanna sit down and have a conversation with your dad. If you decide to do that and you look at these pictures, it’ll be for reasons other than wanting to know what happened. And that’s a powerful thing, kid. You’re not gonna wonder your whole life what happened.
[00:20:19] Jon Dorenbos: You’re not gonna sit in front of your dad and have him lie to you about what happened because you’re gonna see it. So if you ever decide to see him, it’ll be for reasons other than wanting to know what happened. So he got up and he left. And at 12 years old, I looked and it was the worst thing I’ve ever seen.
[00:20:33] Jon Dorenbos: it was probably the worst day of my life. And, I closed the folder. And I don’t have an explanation for this, but I don’t rem and I kept a journal and we went through it when I wrote the book, I don’t, I didn’t write about it, nor do I have any recollection of actually having nightmares about it.
[00:20:49] Jon Dorenbos: And I guess looking back that’s, I don’t know why, but that’s just the case. In fact, I didn’t really ever think about it ever again until I was on the plane to go see my dad, [00:21:00] and I looked out the window and I remember kind of literally like smirking and smiling and chuckling, thinking of my therapist saying, that’s son, a bitch.
[00:21:09] Jon Dorenbos: Here I am going to see my dad. For reasons other than wanting to know what happened. Not only that, but I didn’t have anger, I didn’t have resentment, I didn’t have probably all these feelings that would come with wanting answers to what happened. does that make sense? So if you
[00:21:29] Chris Dorris: mean when you were going to see him, you didn’t have that anger?
[00:21:31] Chris Dorris: You must have Sure as hell had plenty of anger.
[00:21:34] Jon Dorenbos: Oh, I did. Over the years. Over years. But when I was on the plane going to see my dad. Yeah. It was for reasons other than wanting to know what happened. And I believe in my heart that because of that, I didn’t have years of wondering, I didn’t have years of resentment.
[00:21:47] Jon Dorenbos: I’d already kind of resolved that internally. And so, because I knew what happened,I,there the expectation and the, the shock factor, all that goes away because, you know, you have the reality. you’ve come to terms with it, you’ve [00:22:00] had closure. And so when I was going to see my dad, I was going, and it’s funny because on, on my phone, I had my headphones in and, Johnny, Johnny Cash song came in and it was, you know, basically just, Hey, walk with your heart open and basically you’ll not walk alone.
[00:22:15] Jon Dorenbos: Right. you’ll not walk alone. Right. So, and I felt that my mom was with me. I felt that she understood. And, I kind of flipped it on her and said, Hey, if you want me to be the man you want me to be, I gotta do this. And so now what? You know what I mean? So having Yeah. And you’re looking
[00:22:28] Chris Dorris: for the pennies.
[00:22:29] Jon Dorenbos: Yeah. That’s it, man. That’s it, right? Yeah. Yeah. Right. And so I sat down with my dad for five and a half hours and, I literally wrote a game plan out just like, wait, how long? we sat down for five and a half hours. Wow. That’s how long I sat with him. Yeah. Wow. I don’t think I’d
[00:22:44] Chris Dorris: noticed that part. Yeah. I mean, I saw picture, well, you know what?
[00:22:46] Chris Dorris: They’re so, this picture is, I mean, I can, man, yeah.
[00:22:52] Jon Dorenbos: you know, my, I showed that picture to my wife, so that’s my dad and I, after 27 years of not seeing each other, so I showed that [00:23:00] picture to my wife and she literally was like that picture’s like creepy, right? And I was expecting her to say, cuz of my dad, oh no man, look at your face.
[00:23:10] Jon Dorenbos: She said, it’s the only picture I’ve ever seen that you’re not.
[00:23:17] Chris Dorris: Can you talk a little bit about that? Cause I mean, that’s obviously he’s got this big old
[00:23:21] Jon Dorenbos: grid. Yeah. Well, and two, two different pieces. I mean, I, can
[00:23:24] Chris Dorris: I get, I don’t wanna put any words in your mind. I get that. I mean, I stared at this picture, but the first time I leafed this page, I was just checking you out and I mean, this is captivating photo dude.
[00:23:35] Jon Dorenbos: So, here’s the reality of that picture. prior to me seeing him, I get asked to take, we go out in public and I get asked all the time, hey, can I get a picture with you, John? John? Yeah. Cool. And I literally, in an embarrassing way, got in picture mode and my dad and I stood there and I started to smile because habit, like there’s a camera smile, right?
[00:23:52] Jon Dorenbos: You just do it a hundred times a day for people. And then before the picture was taken, I go, wait a minute. this is weird. Like, this is weird [00:24:00] because I was posing. For my own picture. And instead, I was like, what am I smiling about? And what is the meaning? And again, it’s deep reflection.
[00:24:11] Jon Dorenbos: So, stop, take a moment, realize the moment. And I was like, I just, I blinked and I said it when I opened my eyes, just however my expression is, that’s what it’s gonna be. That’s what I’m feeling right now. and it was the feeling of holy shit. I just did something that I never thought I would do.
[00:24:28] Jon Dorenbos: And I’m about to tell my wife that I just had lunch with my dad,
[00:24:35] Chris Dorris: which is very beautiful. I just had lunch with my dad. I got a little weepy when I read that. No. So I just had lunch with my dad.
[00:24:42] Jon Dorenbos: You never got to say that. I never gotta say that. And,and the, the dedication to the book, this is gonna get me choked up. The dedication to the book is just that.
[00:24:50] Jon Dorenbos: It’s to my daughter. And it’s, you’ll always be able to have lunch with your dad. I love that. I
[00:24:54] Chris Dorris: promise you, I was crying when I read that.
[00:24:57] Jon Dorenbos: And that, that, that is a lot deeper [00:25:00] than just lunch. You know, I, when you read the book, you about what exactly that means. And you know what, A friend of mine gave me a great idea, okay.
[00:25:07] Jon Dorenbos: And they were like, Hey, your next book, you should write a children’s book, but it might take you years to write and I’m gonna cry. That’s, and I go, what? What do you mean? And he said,
[00:25:17] Jon Dorenbos: every time you take your daughter to lunch, you and Herrs should invent a story and she should illustrate it. And the book should be called Lunch with Daddy. Ha. I was, wow.
[00:25:30] Chris Dorris: That’s so good.
[00:25:33] Jon Dorenbos: I think when my daughter and I, as she grows up, we’re gonna. Go to lunches, and that’s
[00:25:38] Chris Dorris: brilliant. Make up stories.
[00:25:40] Chris Dorris: Well, that friend of yours is a genius and I love that idea, and thank you. I would just interrupt the whole conversation right now just to acknowledge you. Okay. Delete the word just stupid in that sentence. It doesn’t belong to acknowledge you for how powerful you’re being with, through your transparency.
[00:25:57] Chris Dorris: You are truly a servant, you [00:26:00] know, to the world. and I love you for that. I’ve never, that’s the first time I ever talked to you in my life. Yeah, I know that. I love you, dude. Let’s go. Well,
[00:26:07] Jon Dorenbos: there were people that helped me, and then when I got into magic, my rookie year, I went to the buffalo.
[00:26:11] Jon Dorenbos: Well, I got into magic when I was a kid, and we’ll get to that. In the rookie year, 2003, I met a guy named Kevin Elco. and I’ll never forget, man, we’re in the weight room in the Buffalo Bills and he says, Hey John, you know that,this is his quote. And I actually, I might do it. Okay.
[00:26:25] Jon Dorenbos: He goes, you know that stupid tricky dude with the pencil and dollar? And I go, I mean, I actually think it’s kind of cool, but y yeah. Yeah. He goes, I gotta, he goes, I gotta speak to these bankers in this financial group. Hey, will you do that trick? Cuz they’re money people and will you tell a little bit about your story and you know, maybe where you come from and how you got into college and I’ll give you this amount of money.
[00:26:46] Jon Dorenbos: And I was like, yeah, I’ll do that. And so we, we do it right. And, I get a ton of mail from that group of people and it was my first time speaking right. Instead of just doing magic. So afterwards he goes, Hey look kid, the magic’s cute. I get it. [00:27:00] You need to be a speaker. Like I’m gonna tell you right now, stop.
[00:27:02] Jon Dorenbos: Stop. If you wanna do magic, you need to do magic within your speaking and you need to tell your story. Cuz I, I think people will listen to you. Yeah, man. and everything that you want as a magician, you can still get that fun urge and you can still have that creative side. But I think you should book yourself as a speaker.
[00:27:20] Jon Dorenbos: And my life’s never been the same since. Best advice I was ever given. Ah, good
[00:27:23] Chris Dorris: on them and good on you because that’s one of the, my favorite things about you is that it’s like I watch. You know, I watch the clips, right? Or I watch you on Ellen. I watch you wherever. And, and your move people, dude. I mean, right?
[00:27:36] Chris Dorris: I mean, that’s the deal, right? It’s like you, you’re bringing, you know what you said. I gotta ask you this on, in the finals of America’s Got Talent, right? The, where did that
[00:27:46] Jon Dorenbos: come from? Can I read some of it? No. Hold you wanna know the backstory of this?
[00:27:51] Chris Dorris: Yeah, I sure as hell do.
[00:27:53] Jon Dorenbos: This is way deeper than that.
[00:27:55] Jon Dorenbos: First of all, it’s the most proud of any appearance o of any performance I’ve ever done in my life. [00:28:00] Most proud are, you’re giving me goosebumps right now. All right. So I may get to the finals of America’s Got Talent. I’m in training camp and I called David Copperfield, right? Friend of a friend had his number, I call him, called, that’s Wild Guy.
[00:28:12] Jon Dorenbos: The guy calls me back. Now I’m blown away, right? And I actually called because I was trying to, look, I’m just throwing out ideas, right? I’m throwing it on a wall and I’m gonna see what I’m gonna do for the finals of America’s Got Talent. I got limited time. So I said, Hey, Dave. nobody covers magicians, like mu musicians cover other musicians, but like in magic, you don’t cover somebody, you do this.
[00:28:31] Jon Dorenbos: And I would love to do like a tribute to you cuz it affected my life and I would love to do something and kind of cover you. And he goes, first of all, I think you might be the only person that’s ever called and asked permission. And I really respect that. And I thank you for that. Two. No, you can’t do that.
[00:28:45] Jon Dorenbos: I was like, ah, but he said this. He goes, but you know, maybe you could do this, or this. And I go, you know what, dude? I appreciate you taking the time to call me and I’ll figure something out. So I finally realized that I’d been running around and doing these like, energetic performances.[00:29:00]
[00:29:00] Jon Dorenbos: I wanted to be a rockstar. I can’t sing, I can’t dance and I can’t play an instrument, so check that off the list. But it was time for me to do my valid. And so what was it gonna be? And so, I ended up putting that routine together and it was a routine with the concept of don’t hate, don’t blame and forgive.
[00:29:13] Jon Dorenbos: And how magic saved me as a kid. Now here’s what happened, and I am not making this up. I speak about this. I have a picture of the moment. I’m rehearsing. And a picture fell off our bookshelf and I heard it, but I didn’t acknowledge it. My wife says, holy shit, turn around. And so what happened is I rehearsed this routine and I stood up and I was like, this ain’t good enough.
[00:29:34] Jon Dorenbos: Like, I’m not gonna win. And so the picture falls. And at the moment that I said, I’m, this isn’t good enough, the picture falls and it’s a picture of my mom and I, and we were both just floored, blown away. And my wife and I looked at each other and there was a guy named Bill Malone, who I’ve become friends with, who was a card guy that was on TV back in the early nineties, influenced me.
[00:29:52] Jon Dorenbos: and, my wife and I started talking like, Hey, maybe it’s not about winning and losing. Maybe this is your chance to be Bill Malone. You’re gonna be on the biggest show on television. You’re gonna do a [00:30:00] card trick and you’re gonna influence somebody or affect somebody’s life like he affected yours.
[00:30:03] Jon Dorenbos: So maybe you are gonna win. And that’s winning, right? So here’s the other, underlined thing that I’m most proud of when my, when my mom died and my dad’s trial started. I’ve bitten my nails so bad ever since. And I can’t, I tried everything. I tried everything to quit and I couldn’t, like, I literally, and so when I got into magic, I got really good at the slides, and I got really good at my audience management and my talking.
[00:30:28] Jon Dorenbos: And I was a really fast performer. And every trick was a finale. Like every trick was literally amazing because I was so self-conscious that people were gonna stare at my nails and I hated ’em. And they were, I just hated ’em. Wow. So I meet my wife, and I changed some things about me that I didn’t like and for the good, and she just brought out the best in me.
[00:30:50] Jon Dorenbos: And I looked down and after meeting my wife, guess what? I don’t do no more. Ha. And so I had a baby. and how about this? [00:31:00] America’s Got Talent. The finals was the first time in my life that I did a card trick, slow. And I was finally proud of my hands. Wow. And the whole world saw
[00:31:12] Chris Dorris: it. That’s beautiful. God, there’s so many stories in the story.
[00:31:15] Chris Dorris: So can you recite a little bit of the language that you were using?
[00:31:19] Jon Dorenbos: Ooh. So well, so, I mean, I read it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I remember it, you know, it’s, I bet probably articulated better in the book cuz we spent time writing that. You know,
[00:31:33] Jon Dorenbos: I’ll let you read
[00:31:34] Chris Dorris: it. Oh, this is the, okay, so this is the forgiveness stuff. Oh. Remind me to ask you. I’ll throw it out now. By any chance, have you ever heard of a book called Left to Tell? No. It’s written by a woman named Oh. I think you might wanna check it out. left to tell, and it’s written by a woman named Imma Iza.
[00:31:58] Chris Dorris: That’s a tough one. But, she’s [00:32:00] from Rwanda and she’s a survivor of the Rwandan Holocaust. That happened in 1994 in the summer that the United did not cover cause we’re all too busy watching goddamn soccer.
[00:32:10] Jon Dorenbos: I have actually heard this. I’ve heard of this story and I’ve heard Okay. Yeah, she’s,
[00:32:15] Chris Dorris: I’m not read, but I’m aware.
[00:32:17] Chris Dorris: Yeah, well, it’s a beautiful, and I mean, I was reminded multiple times of it. The bottom line is that she witnessed her entire family get slaughtered. The only one of her many siblings didn’t because he was outta the country when this whole thing went down and she literally heard like her parents being slaughtered outside of the house in which she was hiding.
[00:32:37] Chris Dorris: And when the whole thing was over, the chief of police brought her to the prison where the dude who had murdered her family was in jail. and, you know, he took her to the room and said, I’m just gonna like leave. And you what? Nothing. No one’s ever. And she said, you don’t have to leave. [00:33:00] and this dude, the guy who killed her family is on his knees and she just puts her hands on his shoulders and said, I forgive you,
[00:33:11] Jon Dorenbos: man. Yeah,
[00:33:14] Chris Dorris: I would love to hear you and her have a conversation.
[00:33:17] Jon Dorenbos: But you know what? She did it for herself. that’s it.
[00:33:19] Chris Dorris: Let’s go there. I can’t find that quote, but you, whatever. We’ll get, tell me. Tell, let’s go there. Cause we referenced that earlier, right? She did it for herself. So do you. Preach.
[00:33:30] Jon Dorenbos: So I’m
[00:33:31] Chris Dorris: listening, but I wanna try to find this stuff.
[00:33:32] Chris Dorris: So I’m, yeah.
[00:33:34] Jon Dorenbos: So I realized that I needed forgiveness for myself. And what I did is I redefined what forgiveness means. I didn’t care about anybody’s approval. I didn’t care what other people think. I think a lot of people think forgiveness is about winning and losing. It’s about one upping. If I forgive, I show weakness.
[00:33:52] Jon Dorenbos: If I forgive, that person wins. If I forgive, then we all forget Hodi Doty, and we all go living on our merry lives, okay? And [00:34:00] to me, I realize that forgiveness means I’m okay with where I’m at. I’m okay with where I come from. I’m happy with who I am and the decisions that I make. And I’m no longer gonna let somebody in my life that’s no longer in my life affect my life.
[00:34:20] Jon Dorenbos: Think about that. How many of us know people that get divorced? They’re five, 10 years out and they still have such bitterness and resentment for an individual that they haven’t seen or talked to in years. All that did is take time away from you. So now the whole winning and losing.
[00:34:32] Jon Dorenbos: Who’s really winning your time is all yet. We’ll make money. We’ll spend money, we’ll win money, we’ll lose money. We’ll never be able to buy our time back. So what do you have
[00:34:41] Chris Dorris: to do? That’s a, to have, that’s a mic drop. That’s beautiful. Right? Yeah. Let’s slow that down for a second. Yeah. Wow. Wow.
[00:34:48] Chris Dorris: So if we’re gonna really, like, really reduce this down, we’re saying the choice to not forget is a stupid waste of your precious time.
[00:34:56] Jon Dorenbos: Yeah. and will not forgive. Right. it, it is. and [00:35:00] what I mean by that is, for me, having forgiveness in my dad was me closing a chapter of my life. And it just so happened for me, the timing was right before I was about to become a dad and what I wanted to do and the decision that I made to go sit and have lunch with him.
[00:35:16] Jon Dorenbos: Was, I wanted to stare at him and I wanted to look at him and I wanted to talk to him and I wanted to hear his voice. And I wanted to feel everything about what had happened, where I came from, the decisions that he made, what could have been, what should have been, like, how many people in that restaurant were looking at us thinking we were just a father and son having lunch and had no idea what the backstory was.
[00:35:38] Jon Dorenbos: Right. and then there, there was a part of me where I blinked and I forgot everything and I just wanted to sit and have lunch with my dad cuz I just never did. Right. And so that lasted like five seconds. Right. but I did all that to realize how special it was that I was about to become that dad to somebody else.
[00:35:58] Jon Dorenbos: And to [00:36:00] appreciate everything that I missed out on. And instead of have resentment and bitterness and become a victim of, oh, I don’t have a daddy card. I had to find motivation and the worst thing that happened to me to make this world better for somebody else. And that’s my daughter and my wife.
[00:36:16] Jon Dorenbos: And when I did that, hours into the conversation, I also forgave him for something interesting. And this was enough for me to have closure. I forgave him for being lost, and I forgave him for making mistakes, and both of which I have made many. And I looked at him and I said, dad, I forgive you. And he, it was probably the one point in the conversation that he kind of looked up and was like, holy shit, right?
[00:36:43] Jon Dorenbos: it was the one point in the conversation that I think kind of his eyes watered over a little bit. and I said, I forgive you for being lost. I know I forgive you for making a mistake, and we’re good. And so you’re here and we’re good. We’re good. and what I, and you know, what’s interesting is now that you just said that,[00:37:00] my, because it was probably just interpret and I never looked at it this way, but I think I sensed it from you.
[00:37:05] Jon Dorenbos: It wasn’t Dad and Dad, you and I are good. It was my family. Your daughter, my brother, my sister. We’re good. We’re good. And you’re here. So I hope you’re actually helping people that were in your shoes and trying to make this world a better place. And, when I left, you talk about a world, one of emotion that hit me differently every day for months.
[00:37:29] Jon Dorenbos: Months. Wow. And I realized that the forgiveness was about me. The forgiveness was about, like I said, coming to terms with my own reality and taking a positive out of it. And then I realized something beautiful, something that I literally, it took me by surprise, and I went outside and I bawled my eyes out.
[00:37:48] Jon Dorenbos: But instead of having resentment for not having him in my life as a father, I now get to live that and experience that through both my daughter’s eyes and my eyes. And so I never missed out. [00:38:00] I’m just gonna see it from a different perspective, and I’m gonna live it. See,
[00:38:03] Chris Dorris: can everyone please take that right there?
[00:38:07] Chris Dorris: Stop. This is why I had to have you on the show, man, because fuck, this is what you’re choosing. God, you’re so good at this. You take anything and ha and craft it like an alchemist, you’ll mold it into something spectacular.
[00:38:22] Jon Dorenbos: That’s a choice. Well, and, okay, here’s the choice. There’s two choices that I make.
[00:38:27] Jon Dorenbos: Happiness is not a, not an emotion. Happiness is a choice. It’s a decision. And the other decision is I’m gonna spend more times looking at the things that I’m thankful for and the opportunity than I am, the things that I resent and that I don’t have. Amen. It’s a choice. And so I’m gonna choose.
[00:38:46] Jon Dorenbos: To see, oh, are you ready for this one?
[00:38:48] Chris Dorris: I don’t know.
[00:38:50] Jon Dorenbos: Sure. This sentence right here. This sentence right here. Okay. Changes the game didn’t happen to me. It happened for me. [00:39:00]
[00:39:00] Chris Dorris: Beautiful. You remind me of, you ever hear this woman,
[00:39:04] Jon Dorenbos: Byron Katie? Oh, yeah. It didn’t happen to me. It happened for me. So now
[00:39:10] Chris Dorris: that’s her whole deal is like, life happens.
[00:39:12] Chris Dorris: Doesn’t happen, happens for us. Now, that’s hard to get
[00:39:15] Jon Dorenbos: now. Hold on. But why? But why do but the people that don’t get it? Yeah. here’s my interpretation, okay? Because you take life personally, and what I mean by life, tragedy, life, the good, the bad, the ugly. And when things don’t go your way, you take it personally as if life’s ganging up on you, as if life doesn’t like you.
[00:39:36] Jon Dorenbos: as if everything was attacking you because you’re you. no. See, I don’t look at it that way. See? Life happens whether I want it to or not. The good happens and the bad happens. So now I got a junior college co coach, his name’s coach. Hey. He asks us, Hey, why do we have the names on the back of our jersey?
[00:39:54] Jon Dorenbos: So like an idiot. I raise my hand. It’s easy. Coach, there’s a lot of guys out here. You don’t know who’s who. So you walk behind us, you glimpse [00:40:00] my jersey, you walk in front of me, you wait a few seconds. Hey Dorn boss, get over here. I think you know me. I think you take the time to get to know my name. I’m gonna try harder for you.
[00:40:08] Jon Dorenbos: He goes, John, that’s the dumbest answer I’ve ever heard. Now, coach Hay passed away a couple years ago, and he was one of my favorite coaches I’ve ever had. I was 19 years old and they asked me to speak at his funeral, and I touched on this, and it’s something that he told our team, which was a bunch of misfits.
[00:40:23] Jon Dorenbos: We were, oh, 40, that school was oh, 40 over 40 years. We had the longest losing streak in college football history. Multiple guys were in and out of prison. We were the bad news bears. But he said something after a practice that changed my life. Two things. He goes, I have you guys run lines. And what that means is you stand on one sideline of a football field, you run to the other sideline, touch the white line, and you run back.
[00:40:45] Jon Dorenbos: So what do we do? We run a few. He blows the whistle, he gathers us all up. He goes, I ask you guys to run and touch the line. Half of you guys are about two inches shy. I ask you to touch the line. If you’re gonna settle for those two inches there, you’re gonna settle for two inches everywhere in your life.
[00:40:59] Jon Dorenbos: And the next thing you know, you’re gonna [00:41:00] be way behind and thinking the world’s ganging up on you because you don’t take care of the little things. Have a higher standard for yourself. And when you expect to touch a white line, don’t fall short cuz you’re just falling short on yourself. You’re not cheating me.
[00:41:13] Jon Dorenbos: But guess what? If you don’t hold it here, you ain’t gonna hold it out there. So have more discipline. And then he said, everything that happens in the game, everything that happens in the white lines of a field is gonna happen in this world. You’re gonna get hit, it’s gonna be a late hit, it’s gonna be a bad hit.
[00:41:25] Jon Dorenbos: And maybe a whistle’s not blown. You have a choice in that moment. That choice is the same choice that everyone has, but the choice that is made in that moment is what separates us. I don’t care how much money you have, I don’t care what your religion, I don’t care where you’re from, your title, it doesn’t matter.
[00:41:40] Jon Dorenbos: We were all gonna be faced down in the mud on a hit that wasn’t coming, that we knew was wrong, that everybody knew was wrong. And now what separates us? You stand up, you point fingers, you blame everybody. Well, guess what? You remember that name on the back of your jersey? I’ll tell you why you have it on your, on the back of your jersey cuz one, one day one of you might play on tv.
[00:41:59] Jon Dorenbos: You might play in a game where [00:42:00] millions of people are watching and the camera’s gonna zoom in on that play where you got hit wrong and now you wake up and all of a sudden you open your eyes and you and you get up and you start pointing fingers and blaming everybody. You know what your name represents.
[00:42:12] Jon Dorenbos: Somebody that makes excuses, somebody that deflects and it’s always other people’s fault. Somebody that doesn’t have a higher standard of accountability for themselves and other people have forum, and that’s what you are in this world. Or you stand up, you pick your teammate up, you dust yourself off, you get in that huddle and in 20 seconds you come up with a better idea, a better plan.
[00:42:32] Jon Dorenbos: And as a team, you take the line to completely dominate and realize that it’s okay and realize that it’s not always about whose fault it is. It’s about coming together to make decisions to come out of it better than what you started. Now you do that, you become a teammate that your team would hate to lose, and you become a teammate that every opponent fears.
[00:42:49] Jon Dorenbos: Now you do that, you’re gonna win in this life more than you lose.
[00:42:53] Chris Dorris: And you have proven that right, son?
[00:42:56] Jon Dorenbos: So Well, it comes down to that decision. Yes. Yes. Now,
[00:42:59] Chris Dorris: can [00:43:00] I, so my commitment to my audience is that they take stuff away from every one of these conversations. Like a thing, right? Like something that they can really use it.
[00:43:08] Chris Dorris: This, I feel like today it’s been forgiveness.
[00:43:10] Jon Dorenbos: Are you ready? Yes, sir. Are you ready? Are you ready for me Just to throw this at you? And then you can bullet point this and come on. So, so it’s about, it starts with this. Don’t listen to yourself, talk to yourself. Say that again. It starts with don’t listen to yourself.
[00:43:28] Jon Dorenbos: Talk to yourself. Okay. Because every one of us, I think in moments where it’s hard, we automatically play the victim. We automatically feel sorry for ourselves and we automatically get down. That’s the voice in our own head. So instead, shut that voice up and don’t listen to yourself. Talk to yourself.
[00:43:45] Jon Dorenbos: Yeah. And I literally walk around and I talk to myself all day. I tell myself where I’m going. I tell myself where I want to be. I tell myself who I’m gonna be, and I tell, I, I literally tell myself my own story and you know what else? All my passwords are where I want to be, [00:44:00] where I’m going. So two things.
[00:44:01] Jon Dorenbos: My passwords are always changing, but I don’t save any passwords for an for, for a reason. A lot of people save their passwords and so that way when they log on, it just goes right into the app or right into the website. For me, I don’t do it because I wanna type it out and I wanna hear it.
[00:44:15] Jon Dorenbos: Oh man, that’s cool as shit. I wanna tell myself over and over every single day wow. Where me and my family are going, oh, that’s so cool. All of a sudden, all of a sudden it, it comes to fruition. Might not happen as quick as you want, but those things happen.
[00:44:34] Chris Dorris: Yeah. Right. Thoughts become things. I, right, that’s, is that what you mean when you say, cause you use it all the time. Are you living in vision or are you living in circumstances? is that what we’re talking about here? So here is that the vision of the future that you’re creating, the vision that, of the you that you’re creating.
[00:44:46] Jon Dorenbos: Oh, okay. That’s the moment
[00:44:48] Chris Dorris: I use. This is how I talk to myself. This will be an explanation for another day. This is the product of some badass work that I did with one of the most amazing coaches on the planet. Right. These are two of them. And, but this is the language. This [00:45:00] is what I speak my way into every day.
[00:45:01] Chris Dorris: I also listen to it and my I and my phone. it’s, none of it’s really gonna make sense, but it all makes volumes of sense to me. Every one of these things is a whole freaking story. Every one of these is a whole book.
[00:45:11] Jon Dorenbos: You know what’s really cool about what you just showed me? Yeah. What you and I got a lot in common.
[00:45:16] Jon Dorenbos: And what I mean by that
[00:45:17] Chris Dorris: is, well, I’ll take that as a massive ass compliment. Well,
[00:45:20] Jon Dorenbos: I glimpsed over what those things were. Right. Okay. Yeah. and I’ll tell you what I observed here in two seconds. Yes. So I get a call, I get a call a couple years ago about a Genius Conference. They want me to speak at a Genius conference.
[00:45:31] Jon Dorenbos: And I kid you not, I literally go, oh, look, I think you guys got the wrong number.
[00:45:37] Chris Dorris: And
[00:45:37] Jon Dorenbos: then my buddies were like, these guys must be idiots. Like, they’re not geniuses. These guys are idiots. And so they sent me a, and I agree to do it. So they send me this questionnaire and they’re like, we’re gonna make a tree.
[00:45:46] Jon Dorenbos: Right? They’re gonna make this tree on my mind. And I had to answer these questions. One of the questions was, list the top 100 things you’re most proud of accomplishing li list your top 100 accomplishments is what it [00:46:00] said. I would say my first 75 were very similar to what you wrote. It wasn’t the Pro Bowls, the Super Bowls, the records.
[00:46:09] Jon Dorenbos: Number one, I am happy. Number two, I make decisions to be happy. Number three. I understand that. I don’t listen to myself. I talk to myself. Number four, I’m proud of my name. Number five. I’m okay with where I come from and all my accomplishments that I’m most proud of, were all internal.
[00:46:30] Jon Dorenbos: It wasn’t materialistic, it wasn’t any of that. And so they called me back and they were kind of blown away. Right? They go, I, we’ve never seen this. Like this is like, and, what you wrote right there. Yeah. It’s the things you want to do. it’s the things, how you reflect the choice. Look,I saw it for two
[00:46:44] Chris Dorris: seconds.
[00:46:44] Chris Dorris: I am service impl. Well, listen, here’s another here, check this out cuz this is, I, so I read, those are all over my life. That’s in my wallet. There’s a wallet sized one. There’s one in my car. This is a sacred space on top of my desk where nothing ever gets put on top of that. Like even my beloved Eagle’s mug will [00:47:00] not go on top of that.
[00:47:02] Chris Dorris: Nothing goes on top of that, right? and so because it’s the truth that I’m speaking my way into, okay? Right. Some of it’s totally true. Some of it’s not even close to true yet, but it is in the moment, right When I say it, I have it be my truth. That’s another thing I wanna talk to you about is the acting that you talk about, like on the sidelines of what if I had to be the best player?
[00:47:20] Chris Dorris: We’ll get to that. But this is me. I’m divine grace. This is me speaking my way into my truth, man. Right? I am that this is perfect. Now that’s a pretty big one. I am that this what this. This is perfect. I am that the choice. That’s the choice. Now, I, when ask you a question that I thought about earlier several times.
[00:47:43] Chris Dorris: Okay. And this is in like me thinking about people out there listening and watching, right? That may have had some serious ass tragedy to themselves and just can’t bring themselves to forgiveness. they can’t even be like, like I bet betcha anything that there’s people listening this second who are like, man, I don’t know.
[00:47:58] Chris Dorris: He, I think he’s got [00:48:00] something special that I don’t have. Yeah. I can’t,
[00:48:03] Jon Dorenbos: right? Yeah, you can’t. Yeah. You know, you know what it is. It was time to free myself. It was time.
[00:48:11] Chris Dorris: Say some more on that please. Because, cause I’m thinking in this moment, you and I are serving somebody out there who isn’t hearing that or isn’t feeling that, but might need to hear that right now.
[00:48:21] Jon Dorenbos: So I read a quote years ago on Nelson Mandela. Guy gets locked up. We all know who Nelson Mandela is, gets locked up, spends time in prison. When he is in prison, he says, we will unite and if the guards don’t contain our souls, we are free men. So Nelson Mandela got released from prison and what happens, he does an interview and he said, I’m so bitter at the time, lost.
[00:48:39] Jon Dorenbos: And he goes, you know, what I’m really bitter about is I’m bitter now than I’m outta prison. I’m more bitter now than when I was in prison. So really, now that I’m out of prison, I’ve actually put myself back in prison. Wow. Yeah. And that’s my choice. And I’m out of that now. So, so that right there, free yourself.
[00:48:58] Jon Dorenbos: And so for [00:49:00] me, forgive. but here’s what you gotta do. You gotta not care about what other people think. The person that you forgive, it’s no longer a battle amongst you. Two, it’s no longer a one up. It’s no longer. and it doesn’t mean that you agree. With what that individual did. It doesn’t mean that you’re okay.
[00:49:15] Jon Dorenbos: It doesn’t mean that, that you think about this, you’re not agreeing to be okay with what that person did. Instead, what I did is I made a commitment to myself to free me from the cloud, the anger, the bitterness, and all this resentment that was filling my heart and my soul. And I made a commitment to get rid of that and be okay.
[00:49:37] Jon Dorenbos: Now, if I forgave my dad and he stood up and pumped his chest and knew, I knew you would, I’m right. Okay, that’s fine. You can feel that way because you know what it was for me too, it was a sense of,empathy. I no longer cared what my dad thought. It wasn’t about whether you, I’m not forgiving you so that you feel better about yourself.
[00:49:57] Jon Dorenbos: I don’t really care if you’re happy. [00:50:00] I don’t really care if you’re sad. I don’t really care. I’m forgiving you for me. Your reaction and your choices after this mean nothing to me anymore.
[00:50:14] Jon Dorenbos: I don’t care if you think you won great. I don’t care. I’m freeing myself. That’s what it meant to me. Amen to that dude. think about your family. let’s assume you got a family divorced. Not divorced, but you got kids. All right. Let’s just make that assumption. and think about how much time you have spent thinking about what you’re bitter about in the past.
[00:50:37] Jon Dorenbos: And how much quality time that’s taken away from the ones that you really love. Because either, a, you went and sat in a closet or in a room by yourself, just miserable, or B, you weren’t present with that person because in your mind, you were thinking about something else. So you might have been there, but you weren’t present in the moment.
[00:50:59] Jon Dorenbos: That’s a powerful [00:51:00] thing. Be okay with it. Come to terms with it. Realize you’re not alone. Realize that multiple people have been raped. Multiple people have endured somebody that has murdered. Multiple people have been alcoholics, drug addicts gone through aa, struggled with sex addiction, you name it. Odds are you are not the only one.
[00:51:17] Jon Dorenbos: So there’s really nothing to be embarrassed about. And the other thing I realized is we’re all a little fucked up. Like it’s not just me. Like everybody has their struggles, everybody, human condition, everybody has their struggles. It’s just being okay with it and trying to work through it and make yourself better and make the world better.
[00:51:40] Jon Dorenbos: and maybe even finding somebody that went through something similar and helping each other get through it.
[00:51:47] Chris Dorris: Well, you know, there were a lot of things that I wanted to ask you about in, in addition to what we’ve discussed. I don’t wanna do that now. I think we just honored. I think this conversation was brilliant and beautiful and in service, [00:52:00] hopefully to a whole lot of people.
[00:52:02] Jon Dorenbos: well, that’s why I wrote the book because,I felt that I had a, I had like this epiphany that other people had been through what I’d been through, and, I think when we share our stories, we can help people. And,I wrote that book as honest as I possibly could. And, I’ll say this, if you’re struggling, if you know somebody that’s struggling, if you’re looking just for some inner strength or some, some one-liners that you can maybe take with you to find hope, find forgiveness, find happiness, then I really hope that if you read my story that you leave with just that.
[00:52:34] Chris Dorris: And you will, and here’s some of the language I found. This is some of what you said as you were performing the trick in the finals of America’s God talent, you said. So what I did is I turned to magic and it helped me find myself. It simply taught me, don’t hate, don’t blame and forgive. This is life. When everything’s going so perfect and yet tragedy and chaos, they strike when we least expect it.
[00:52:59] Chris Dorris: We all face this, [00:53:00] but I think the difference is do we decide and do we choose to live in vision or do we choose to live in circumstance? And I don’t know about you guys, but I wake up every single morning and I choose to live in vision to find happiness, knowing that life will work its way out and we will all find ourselves.
[00:53:20] Chris Dorris: Yeah. There you go, man. I mean, that’s some serious shit, dude. As you’re performing a mind blowing trick on international television, are you
[00:53:30] Jon Dorenbos: ready for like, what You ready for this? And I don’t know if it’s in the book or not and I probably should cuz it’s my book. You know what it is? It is in my book.
[00:53:39] Jon Dorenbos: Okay. What happened at Commercial Break? yeah.
[00:53:42] Chris Dorris: oh yeah. The, oh, hi Simon’s wife. can
[00:53:46] Jon Dorenbos: I tell this? Do I please?
[00:53:47] Chris Dorris: Yeah. It’s so beautiful. This is really
[00:53:48] Jon Dorenbos: cool. So, you know Simon Cow, he’s the judge on America’s Got Talent, American Idol. Can I? Okay. yeah. He’s the hard guy. You know, he’s everybody, you know.
[00:53:56] Jon Dorenbos: Oh, he’s the mean one. He was cool as heck to me the whole time. [00:54:00] and so what happened is, I do that trick. I say what you just read and that commercial, a woman walks up. Now what happened is I had all four judges autograph four cards. And I like to keep those, that those, that, that’s the way I get autographed some celebrities, I haven ’em signed playing cards, right.
[00:54:12] Jon Dorenbos: It’s a. it’s a shameless way of getting autographs. Right. And their memories for me. And so I had all four judges sign those and I was gonna keep ’em. Well, this lady walks up and grabs the one that Simon wrote, and he ended up writing his son’s name on it. and my first reaction was, what the hell?
[00:54:25] Jon Dorenbos: Like, I mean, yeah, who just comes up here and like, does that, right? Like, you got some nerve. And she goes, can I have this? And I was like, and then all of a sudden Simon walked up, put his arm around her, and that was, you know, that was Eric’s mom and that was his son’s mom and the woman he’s with.
[00:54:42] Jon Dorenbos: And, She said, I want to, I wanna hang this in my house. And as a reminder that the magic will live in our house forever. Yeah. And the vibe
[00:54:48] Chris Dorris: that’s going on there is because it’s Right. So, so when you read this, or if you just watch that, I mean, you can just, you find that, right? Can’t you just go find that clip that, oh, well, not that moment because I was on a commercial break.
[00:54:59] Chris Dorris: but [00:55:00] you get to go watch the trick and listen to the, like, you know, the spirit, the vibe that you bring, the language. It’s like you’re like reminding me of like, when Carlos Santana in concert goes in his verbal rifts as he’s shredding on guitar at the same time, you’re like, how the fuck do you do both of those so amazing at the same time, you know?
[00:55:18] Chris Dorris: So I’m getting like, I’m like, yeah, the trick’s pretty amazing actually. That is fucking crazy amazing. How the hell? But what I’m digging on more is, the vibe you’re putting me into right now is that your brain of connectedness, and you always do this, and this is another thing I love about you, is that the like, the rants kind of, that you go on as you’re doing the tricks is they’re always so beautiful.
[00:55:36] Chris Dorris: It’s always about like, Could, like, the love you give Ellen is something that’s pretty awesome. Cool. You know, it’s just so like, you put the napkin back together and you’re like, because
[00:55:44] Jon Dorenbos: you make us whole, I’m like, God, look at in though.
[00:55:47] Chris Dorris: So good.
[00:55:48] Jon Dorenbos: You know, you know what’s crazy is on America’s Got Talent, NBC and all that, they want it scripted out.
[00:55:53] Jon Dorenbos: Like, what are you gonna say? Right? And like, I lightly script it, but I’m like, we’ll see. I don’t really know. See, like, [00:56:00] I’m gonna tell you right now, I’m gonna get in the moment. Well, my heart’s gonna talk. and I’ll, they’re like, as long as you hate your time and just don’t cuss,
[00:56:11] Chris Dorris: that’s great. Okay. Got it. Well, you know, I wanna, obviously, I wanna thank you so deeply for making time today and for being so transparent here, and helping me in my mission. Brother, which is to serve as many people as I can. and, I just, the way that you are choosing to show up in the world is the kind of role model that we all really need.
[00:56:33] Chris Dorris: And choice. Choice is it, man, you know, we talk so much about forgiveness today. That’s a choice. Also, happiness. You said it’s a choice. It’s not an emotion, it’s a choice. Right? We get to choose. You are a role model for what I believe has to become fundamental curriculum at the earliest levels of all education, which is how to make choices like these,that they are even
[00:56:56] Jon Dorenbos: choices.
[00:56:57] Jon Dorenbos: That and living and understanding that the story [00:57:00] that we tell ourselves, it means something. The words that we use. you know, I had a moment where I was traded into the New Orleans Saints. They discovered I had a, an aneurysm in my ascent aorta, a leaky valve. surgery was supposed to be four and a half hours.
[00:57:12] Jon Dorenbos: It was about 11 and a half. so I went through 11 and a half hour lifesaving emergency open heart surgery. And so I get out of it. and I would take my, well, I was in the hospital for over 30 days post-surgery. Right. So, yeah. I would take my, my little,my IV and then I had this clear suitcase that had tubes that went into my chest that was draining all the fluid into my lungs.
[00:57:31] Jon Dorenbos: Is there a picture of that?
[00:57:32] Chris Dorris: Oh yeah. Well, not all that right, but yeah. The picture of you. Yeah. There it is. Right? You, yeah. and Anna Lisa. Yep. what are you guys
[00:57:41] Jon Dorenbos: doing there? we’d walk the halls, man, if I could make it to the end of the hallway, you know, then I would get a juice box and it was the greatest juice box ever.
[00:57:49] Jon Dorenbos: That was my reward, you know. But, I, I, and I would shuffle my feet to the bathroom and I, my wife would say, don’t close that door, cuz if I fell, she had to come help me. But I would close the door as much as I could, [00:58:00] and that was my moment that I would sit in the mirror and I was defeated.
[00:58:03] Jon Dorenbos: And I’m talking, I sunk in down 30, 40 pounds and just, I just felt defeated. And then I would cry, and then I had a moment where I’d wash my face and then I stood up and I held onto my IV and I stared at myself in the mirror and I would talk to myself. I didn’t allow self pity in that conversation. And I would tell myself where we’re going and I’d tell myself who I am and what I’m gonna do.
[00:58:27] Jon Dorenbos: And that would start my day, get out the pity, and then talk to myself. You stand up, you hold your head high, you walk proud. and you brought that vibe. I,
[00:58:37] Chris Dorris: you brought that vibe though, to not just to yourself, you started with yourself, but then you went out on these wall trade, didn’t you? and you brought it to the other people
[00:58:43] Jon Dorenbos: on the unit.
[00:58:44] Jon Dorenbos: Yeah. There was this old man across me. He had the same surgery and I, I finally looked in there and he was just looking down, grumpy. I said, man, you look like shit. It’s the first time I met this guy, right? And I look like shit. I go, you look like shit. [00:59:00] The guy picked his head up and he looked at me like, shocked.
[00:59:02] Jon Dorenbos: And he goes, I look better than you do.
[00:59:04] Chris Dorris: That’s great.
[00:59:05] Jon Dorenbos: That’s great. But hey, but you, Hey. But you know what happened. What? We both had a little laugh. Yeah. Amen. Right. Bring it up, baby. And I said, why don’t, yeah, why don’t you get up with him? Take a walk with me. Let’s go get a juice box.
[00:59:18] Chris Dorris: Did he? Oh yeah.
[00:59:20] Jon Dorenbos: That’s what we did. Oh,
[00:59:21] Chris Dorris: that’s so fun. You know, we, we didn’t get to, you have so many good stories. Like the whole story got about getting traded away from my beloved Eagles, but thank God. Cause I wouldn’t be sitting here right now doing what I’m doing, talking to, I’m talking to, if that didn’t happen now.
[00:59:37] Jon Dorenbos: All right. I’m gonna con, I’m gonna con, I’m gonna condense this down real quick.
[00:59:40] Chris Dorris: Okay. It doesn’t have to be quick. I know I already started to sign off, but who gives a shit?
[00:59:44] Jon Dorenbos: Because there’s a beautiful silver lining here that, that encapsulates everything for this moment. At this point in my career, I think I’m pretty good.
[00:59:54] Jon Dorenbos: I thought I was the best fit for the equals, I thought I was the best player, for the position. I felt I was the best option [01:00:00] for my teammates. and all of a sudden in the preseason I started getting benched. And in practice I got demoted to second string, then third string, and I was fucking pissed.
[01:00:09] Jon Dorenbos: Pissed. So I have,I broke a, well, I have a franchise record for the Eagles for the most consecutive games ever played. 1 62. Yeah. A 162 straight. Now that doesn’t include playoffs and all that. So that was season games. So I actually played more and I was really proud. I was proud of my job and I was proud to be there for my teammates.
[01:00:26] Jon Dorenbos: That being said, I started getting resentment from my special teams coach cuz he was benching me and I got pissed. So the next thing you know, they say, Hey, we’re gonna trade you. And I got pissed and then I took a second and I looked at the gm, who I’m friends with. This is so good. And he thought I was gonna blow up.
[01:00:43] Jon Dorenbos: Right? Right. And I go, you’re gonna trade me. Wait a minute. Has there ever been a long snapper trade?
[01:00:51] Chris Dorris: I’m the first winning, and he literally goes for people that don’t get that. Okay, maybe not football heads, but what do you, what is it that we’re saying here? Like, what happens? [01:01:00] They don’t get traded long.
[01:01:01] Chris Dorris: Snappers don’t
[01:01:01] Jon Dorenbos: get traded. Yeah. What do they get? Cut. They cut, get fired because trading means that you’re gonna have to give stuff up and it’s just, people don’t do that. So, all right, so here’s what happens. I go to New Orleans, I play in one game and then I take my physical. I then find out of my heart condition At the time, I’m 37 years old.
[01:01:19] Jon Dorenbos: I go from the northeast to a dome, which is 13 games, indoors, great, all black uniforms slimming for a 37 year old pudgy white guy. And my wife and I are really excited for a fresh start. And it, whether I wanted to stay in Philly or not didn’t matter. That was my reality that was happening. The sooner I came to terms with it, the sooner I could see the positive in going to New Orleans.
[01:01:38] Jon Dorenbos: that was my reality. So I had to make the best of it. So what happens? All of a sudden I get my heart surgery, it saves my life. I was 37, I signed a three year extension for more money than I’d ever made. So I, you know, I lost millions in that. but I was alive and now I’m sitting in the hospital and now I’m starting to remember the bitterness and the, anger and the resentment that I [01:02:00] had for a coach that was benching me.
[01:02:03] Jon Dorenbos: And instead, now I have a choice. I can remain bitter and angry and live in that memory, or I can look up and thank him for buying me time oof. And what I thought was awful, and what I thought I didn’t deserve, and what I thought wasn’t fair, and what I thought was fucking wrong. Ended up being the best thing ever that could possibly happen because I was one hit away.
[01:02:32] Jon Dorenbos: I was one good hit away from getting hit in the chest to dying. Yeah. And every time he benched me and didn’t play me in a game that bought me time. Yep. Every time I didn’t take a rep in practice, that bought me time. You had
[01:02:42] Chris Dorris: this conversation directly with him?
[01:02:45] Jon Dorenbos: No. No. Well, hopefully we’ll watch this. but the bottom line is sometimes, oh, dude.
[01:02:53] Jon Dorenbos: Okay. Here’s another one. Dude, this is gonna blow your mind. So I become friends with Garth Brooks years ago. Okay. And, long start. Yeah. Long story [01:03:00] short, I love this guy. He’s my, he was like my idol. So like, it was blown away. So now I’m at a heart surgery. I’m doing a show at Ellen. there was another situation that came up that, you know, didn’t really work out for me.
[01:03:11] Jon Dorenbos: It would’ve been the dream job. It would’ve been amazing. Right. And I, and it didn’t happen. And I was bummed. But had it not happened, then I would’ve never been traded to the Saints. I would’ve never got my surgery. I wouldn’t be alive. So Garth comes into my green room and he goes, Hey man, God dang, you look good, man.
[01:03:28] Jon Dorenbos: Heart surgery, this how you feeling? You know? and he brought a, it was Diet Coke. I had a shot of Diet Coke and he goes, hey, here’s a toast. You know, when I first met you, you said you love the song Unanswered Prayer. So guess what Buddy? Sometimes what we think we want, sometimes what we think we need, sometimes what we think is right and we don’t get it, and those are unanswered prayers and they end up being the best thing that ever happened to us.
[01:03:48] Jon Dorenbos: So cheers to unanswered prayers. Man, it that prayer Saved your life, not getting it. Yes. So
[01:03:55] Chris Dorris: life happening for us,
[01:03:58] Jon Dorenbos: not to us, didn’t happen to me. It [01:04:00] happened for me. Very. It’s up to us to figure out why.
[01:04:03] Chris Dorris: You know, and that’s a beautiful takeaway, okay. Is to have that be a
[01:04:07] Jon Dorenbos: practice.
[01:04:08] Chris Dorris: Right. Is to have that be a practice.
[01:04:11] Chris Dorris: Right. Of shifting yourself out of the hole happening to me mentality into, okay, I can’t see this right now. This shit’s going on. I’m not happy about it. Not what I asked for it not what I wanted. Somehow this is happening for me. I will discover that. Maybe not in this moment, maybe not in many moments, but that’s, it may take years.
[01:04:30] Chris Dorris: It may take years, and maybe you’ll never discover it. Maybe you’ll never discover it. But what?
[01:04:35] Jon Dorenbos: But what happens is the belief in that Changes your short-term perspective on everything around you. Putting you on a positive road and then
[01:04:46] Chris Dorris: you vibe out like that to everybody around you, which means you’re elevating them.
[01:04:50] Chris Dorris: Right. Bringing the world up, you know, one of my greatest teachers in life, Dr. Allison Arnold, doc Ali, She does a lot of, she, she’s like the [01:05:00] number one mental coach for gymnastics, like on the planet earth. And she used to be my business partner. She helped me start my whole career actually at a graduate school.
[01:05:08] Chris Dorris: And she taught me the phrase, we’re always either contaminating or purifying the world with our thinking or with our vibe. You know? I love it. and that’s what I wanna thank you for is because you’re bringing it up, man. You are not contaminating you, you are definitely purifying with the way that you choose to interpret reality and to respond to it.
[01:05:30] Chris Dorris: That’s the vibe you’re putting out. I felt it the first time. You know,
[01:05:33] Jon Dorenbos: it’s crazy because the motive of why we do that, I think changes in our life. And, you know, I thought it was a calling, you know, years ago and now I had my little girl, and now I’m a girl dad. And now the motivation to do things is to make this world as great as I can for her.
[01:05:52] Jon Dorenbos: When I’m gone brother, and that brother that motivates you to man, do things and it’s like your legacy, man. It’s to make this world better than [01:06:00] what it is. And you know what? People that say, oh, I’m just one person, I can’t change. Yeah, you can, one person can make a big difference.
[01:06:08] Chris Dorris: Big. Yeah. Amen. And you are certainly doing that.
[01:06:12] Chris Dorris: So I thank you so much for not just for being here today, but for the way that you’re choosing to show up and for all the joy that you’re bringing, all the connection and spiritedness, levity, humor, forgiveness, inspiration, motivation, and all the other things. I could go on and on. So way to go, bro.
[01:06:33] Jon Dorenbos: Thanks man.
[01:06:36] Chris Dorris: I really appreciate you making time, man. I hope that we can do it again sometime. Yeah, for sure. You know what? Do you still have that dollar and the pencil? Yeah.
[01:06:44] Jon Dorenbos: can we do it? Yeah. What, what was the context that we were, You were so, you were, oh yeah. So this is the trick. Oh, hold on.
[01:06:51] Jon Dorenbos: I, I got it. I got it. this is great. are we rolling? Yep. Let’s, yep. All right. So this is actually a trick I saw on television and, this was the trick that Elco came and he said to me, he [01:07:00] goes, Hey, you know that little stupid trick you do with the dollar and the pencil? And I go, yeah, I actually think it’s cool.
[01:07:04] Jon Dorenbos: But anyways, and this, I can actually credit this for getting me in the speaking game. if you take a pencil on a dollar, you can actually jam it through the center. And a lot of people know this, but money is actually, it’s cloth, like it’s not paper. Right. And there’s a little ribbon in there.
[01:07:16] Jon Dorenbos: And if you hit this right through, it’ll go, this little blue ribbon will pop out. Okay. I missed it. That’s okay. but check this out. And I actually didn’t go through the center either. It’s actually off a little bit. that’s okay. Watch, here we go. It’s taking the pencil and the dollar Listen. And now we’re just as good as here.
[01:07:41] Jon Dorenbos: Here. Here’s what’s really cool. There’s no tear, there’s no anything. Here’s what’s wild is that a lot of people actually hear that tear. yeah. Yeah. I just heard the tear. Yeah. You think you hear it, right? Yes. Mean it’s so, but really, you don’t even need to tear it. Check this out. We’re gonna just set this in the center.
[01:07:55] Jon Dorenbos: Alright. We’re gonna set this thing here and fold it. And just, [01:08:00] I’m gonna try and balance this. So the, I learned this, that the eraser of the pencil is actually the same weight as the pencil itself. And you can balance it. Watch this time you won’t hear anything and you’ll just see it go just like that.
[01:08:18] Jon Dorenbos: That’s so great. And this can be signed and then you hand it away. And that’s so fun. It’s all good. Thanks for showing us that. Do you, huh. Of course. Ta.
[01:08:28] Chris Dorris: Oh, thanks man. This has been so awesome. Appreciate you so much. Not really what it might think of when you think football player, you know, grunt. I know it’s a sweeping generalization, but there’s a reason for sweeping generalizations.
[01:08:48] Chris Dorris: he’s not typical by any stretch. He’s extremely atypical. but I say that and I kind of wish he was still on because I can, I suspect that he’d be like, [01:09:00] there’s nothing special. It’s just the choices that I make. Right? He chooses, he is really the epitome of, what it looks like, right?
[01:09:12] Chris Dorris: To choose how you interpret your life. And I love that he brought up. and I always attribute this to Brian and Katie. The whole life happened. Life isn’t happening to me. It’s happening for me. And imagine, right? Given his circumstance, like I could sit here and chirp all that all day long. But here’s her, here’s a human who has endured some of the most unthinkable, I mean, unthinkable kind of tragedy.
[01:09:43] Chris Dorris: And that is his choice on how to, respond to life. We need some
[01:09:50] Jon Dorenbos: more of John Doen boss.
[01:09:53] Chris Dorris: I’m just so happy that I get to share ’em with you. All right, you guys. Until next time, great miracle. [01:10:00]
Here’s the audio only version, which you can also download as an MP3 file to listen to on the go.
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